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I am going to try to issue
warnings on product faults that have been observed and proven on this page. Your help
would be appreciated.
If you have instances of this,
could you email the story and a photo if possible. Equestrian
Consumers' have the same rights at Law that other Consumers' have.
If you have purchased product that contains design, performance or
quality faults, return it to the store and request your money back.
If they do not offer a refund, report to the matter to your State
Consumer Affairs Dept, who will make representations on your behalf,
providing they are convinced of your allegations.
Below are some photo's of
examples of problems people have had with brand new items.
Other real life instances as well as will be reported in words on
Click on the photo's to
BATES SADDLES AND THE PRICE DIFFERENCE OS
P.S. I contacted you a while ago re Bates and Wintec saddle prices
here in Australia as compared to Europe and the USA.
My daughter has just purchase a Bates Isabell Werth, fully mounted
with the padded transport saddle bag, saddle blanket, the full Easy
Change gullet system and gauge delivered to her from the USA for
AU$2595. The saddle unmounted here in Australia is AU$3495. Bates
excuse is that there are "import duties" that don't exist and GST
(10% $317.73). Sigh! They're no better than the float builders.
That is unreal Chris and something that all
should know. Thanks
17th February, 2009
Kincade Stick Saddle
The Lady was riding a
buck jumper well as as per my warnings about such equipment, the
monkey strap ripped clean out of the saddle and drove her into the
ground. They are still heaping crap on you Folks. One day........
--Hi there John,
Ahhhhhh I have just been doing some brush ups on knowlege. I was
watching your pod cast evasions. Bear (my horse I just sold and left
for a nice home in KI to a great new owner with loads more
experience.) Well from the day I got him he tried may evasions I saw
them for what they were. I corrected him and he grew out of these
evasion. such as riding you against the fence, jig jogging and
parking. lol I had spelled him for a while ( a few months) although
he was still being handled and groomed. So I decided time to ride
again. he firstly did everything asked of him, then the parking
started. I backed him up and I firmly believe this is the next
evasion as none of his others have worked on me he cut 180 and
bucked and bucked til I was off and hit the deck. I only realised
this after watching the pod cast. I was so busy looking for answers
but there it is. nothing else has worked so I will turn to bucking.
he got me off alright but brave me jumped straight back on concussed
and injured and made him go round again til he behaved. I hopped off
after that and I don't have a death wish so I decided to pass him on
to more capable hands. I stayed on thanks to the monkey strap I got
from you but the screws came clean out the saddle. here are the
photos. The monkey strap was completely in tact but the screws were
not up to the job(the ones that hold the shackle in place). the
shackle next to it was not screwed in, in one of the points at all.
this is a stock saddle and it was my first time to attach and ride
with the monkey strap to the shackles. This saddle is only used from
time to time and I have used the saddle 12 times in its life since I
bought it brand new!
from Cindy and Wayno
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5th May, 2008
Here is a picture of a Navaho girth purchased from
Goodwoods.You should be able to see from the image
that there is a serious design flaw in that the
buckle twists sideways allowing the girth pionts to
Im sure most readers will understand my horror when
after only 5 minutes of riding the girth fell off
The lack of quality in the manufacture of the girth
illustrates their lack of safety concerns clearly
indicating that profit outweighs safety.
Lucky to be alive
Yes, highly dangerous,
substandard crap girth. How much money was that Nat?
Take it back and demand
your money. That is your legal right.
I was saddling up a
Horse the other morning and luckily noticed this.
The same Horse bucked with me 4 times that morning.
Can you imagine the trouble I would have been in
with this girth breaking and the back cinch still
attached? 6 Months old brand new. So, once again,
not enough attention paid to quality or safety by
the Manufacturer. 6 months is just not good enough,
sorry. Be Careful.
At a recent Clinic run by the
EFA, the National Dressage Coach commented on the Bates Innova
Dressage Saddle saying that it was not suitable as it restricted the
free movement of the Rider. Mrs. HP has ridden in one as a Trial and
found that it is most unsuitable if riding any horse that may throw
in a Buck as you get launched out over the front. A client who has
one has been in fact bucked off several times out of one.
AND TYING HORSES UP
The continual battle that Horse Trainers fight in order to teach
correct training methods and so protect the lives of Horses, is very
often made more difficult by Saddlery inventions that emerge via the
National Saddlery Chains. In the latest catalogue of Horseland,
there is a 'breakaway Halter' that is 'designed to break under
pressure' and good for horses that pull back. From a Trainers point
of view, I find this product potentially dangerous to horses and
owners. It sends the wrong message to the young and inexperienced
and once again fosters the ignorance that horses gain when led
around in leather or webbing Halters. What is most concerning is
this. If a suspect horse, one that we know will NOT tie up and WILL
pull back, is tied up solid using this Halter, something that the
young and innocent are likely to now do because of the claims and
the key/buzz word of GOOD, such horses will increase their level of
violent reaction, have that energy level temporarily hesitated up to
the breaking strain of the weakest point of the Halter and then
'ping' backwards' with the strong likelihood of going completely
over backwards with the whiplash effect smashing the back of the
head of the horse on the ground, injuring it or possibly killing it.
Not only is the principal of the claims of this halter dangerous
imho but I know from experience that such horses will immediately
deteriorate further in their propensity to pull back and add a
Mental factor to the process, rendering them more dangerous to
themselves and to Humans. Saddlery Shops have a responsibility to
Horses imho but I often see dangerous things sold. This can be one
of them and I strongly urge you to steer right away from it. Either
tie to twine or re-train your horse. There are no in betweens.
This rug is 2 weeks old. The
neck has stretched
This rug is 2 weeks old. The Velcro
will not keep the neck rug in place.
Euro Hunter Set. Great rug and
hood, brainless fittings
The result of hoods that don't fit
and fittings that would be
better holding your jocks up
Purchased a new GG Rug set.
The rug had to go back within a week. The horse that wore it is
yarded and all he did was half of one roll over. The leg strap and
belly bands came away as they were stitched to the silk lining, not
through the rug. Today, the Saddlery confirmed that more are
starting to be returned.
It is my opinion, that the
reliance on Velcro as the only manner of fixing of neck rugs or
hoods, is dangerous to horses and often does not work in reality. I
recommend that when purchasing these products, you should demand
clips or straps as fasteners. I don't know who designs such
potentially dangerous products.
When purchasing stockmans' or
chain hobbles, do not buy the so called 'Lambswool' ones as they
severely rub horses. Leather ones do not.
I am sad to say that the last
few set's of R.M .Williams Hobbles that I have purchased, have been
shows a Euro Hunter Rug and Neck rug set. This product is great in
quality but those responsible for the location of the fixtures are
brain dead. Dangerous to horses, causing injuries and possible
warning regarding the use of the new, thicker types of Poly electric
Fencing wire. It is advertised as being safe to horses but it is
highly dangerous. Photo's of injuries will be put up soon.
I am yet
to use an Asian Leather Hole Punch that is not substandard, faulty,
too weak and doesn't collapse at the strength of one of my hands.
The Saddle Stores having been selling these for years and are doing
the wrong thing by you, their client. Buy the Brittish made one.
16th October, 2005
Last thing - Mesh Flyveils.
Horseland Mesh Flyveils are cheap and nasty- they have no real shape
(does that make sense) - so the mesh would sit too close to the
horses eyes (I have brought this type before and they are useless) -
if you buy the ones with the nose attachment they don't really fit
to the horses nose.
Saddleword Sell 'Flyveils By Design' brand -.flyveilsbydesign.com.au/
- they are the best I have ever used!!!! the horses love them - the
shape doesn't change, sits high off the horses eyes and doesn't move
around to much, really well made. And it is only $3 more then the
horseland brand. And they are an Australian product!
BLUE FLY VEILS ARE
HATED BY HORSES!!!!!!!!!!
16th October, 2005
I wish I had read your site earlier, Consumer Watch. I have
purchased a GG rug for my elderly horse after being told by the
"sales person" that of all the rugs on display that this would be
the most durable for my paddocked horse. It has lasted only a short
time before ripping along the bottom and the cross straps coming
off. This problem was fixed and the next day it had happened again,
and again. It appears to be a fault in the canvas. Needless to say I
was told that as the horse had worn the rug it could not be returned
I advised the client to go buy
a Parelli Lead rope as the Parelli lead rope that she
had was a 6 foot long substandard waste of time. Off she
goes to Allingtons Saddlery as you will remember that
Saddleworld and Horseland are suddenly selling training equipment
that I would find inaffective.
Back she comes with this:
didn't come with a clip. The Saddlery put that clip on.
So what is my point? This design is NOT Pat Parelli's
design and if he thought that is what was needed to
train then he would have designed it like that. I can
tell you definitively that such a design interferes with
the proper training of the horse and ruins feel and
weight distribution for the horse and handler. Yet
another clone product that is leaping into Pat's wallet
whilst not even doing him the justice of following the
correct design. So now, my client has to traipse back
and return it. Now there would appear that none of the
Saddlery shops that I know of will sell correct
products. I urge you not to buy them. Here is a properly
THE DEATH OF QUALITY
A major Saddlery player is
attempting to do just what Coles and Woolworths are
doing as we speak. Take over and kill every known brand
name and to replace product with generic and often
product of a lesser quality or from Countries that know
no health regulations. Bankrupting Australian
Companies in the process. It is now happening with
Saddlery and it is about to get worse. I have
highlighted certain cases and warned you about the
effect upon training. They don't care for horses, only
the bottom line. Now there is pressure being placed upon
certain other Saddle businesses, to tow the line and
comply with rules, policies and product. Please stand up
against them or in 10 years time you will no longer buy
anything decent. Then, as evolution of our race takes
place, crap will become normal. That is how they work.
any smart entrepreneur out there is ready to earn mega,
start looking at an internet based mail order saddlery
business that delivers quality and won't burn their
Have you had any talk on your site lately of the 'new' design rugs
which some manufacturers have brought out this season? I think they
are a bit ridiculous. Check out the photo attached of a Eurohunter
Light new seasons neck rug purchased from Bonnets. As soon as the
horse puts it's head down there is a gap between wither and neck rug
and when horse puts it's head up the neck rug 'bunches' in front of
the wither of the rug, not to mention very weak/ poor quality
attachments. Anyway, i don't like them, other people may have other
straps need to attach back further on the rug!
latest substandard fitting. Two broken off on this rug. Not only
that but the push, spring loaded button that belongs in a racing car
not on a horse, can come undone and that is dangerous for horses.
This one is on the belly band.
on the chest straps. Broken
My horse has been out of work due to a sore back for the past few weeks. I
eliminated veterinary first, hooves are done regularly & teeth were
also done recently, horse is relatively fit and in healthy
condition. I was riding him with a thick saddle blanket & eventually
purchased a “gel pad” but to no avail. My next step was to get out a
massage therapist who is also a saddle fitter. She checked out my
saddle (Just for info my saddle was NOT purchased from the well
known retailers & does not have the CAIR system) It is brand new and
maybe ridden in 5 times if lucky & we found to have numerous faults
from the manufacturer. It is overstuffed on one side, gullet appears
to be slightly twisted & is different widths etc. Massage lady gets
out big ball bearing & puts it in the gel pad. “Feel this” she says
& hands it to me. The gel simply dispersed around the bearing,
therefore causing pressure points on horse’s back. Bad for horse, &
lots of money for a useless product. Here’s a bigger shock. Massage
lady had to ‘dissect’ a saddle as part of her course and showed me a
CAIR panel. What do you think is inside those CAIR panels? Do you
think they are really panels full of air? I don’t think so!!! It is
nothing but cheap, nasty FOAM (& in very cheap and nasty ‘plastic’
packaging) that compress with feather-light touch! More pressure
points! The retailers charge an extra $300 to option your saddles
with this, & it is nothing but a farce & obviously NOT good for
horses! Really disappointing, now I scrutinize every product I
consider purchasing for my horse as nothing seems to be made with
the horse in mind but rather, profit in mind. Anyway John, that is
my whinge of the week, I hope it helps one of your readers make a
more informed decision when purchasing their next saddle. Keep up
your great work on the site and hi to Mrs HP, I am looking forward
to getting some of her dressage DVD’s soon!
Hey you! John, before I bought Red, as you know I tried out a few
other horses. My Treeless saddle got broken by a very excitable
Bucking Gelding. Both Stirrup Bars were ripped off. I have only
picked it up from the Saddlery and this is what he said. Now please
remember ( I am not giving out it's brand name for suing purposes
lol) this is NOT an cheap Ebay item. It cost me just on $2000.
The 'leather' if you can call it that is actually Synthetic Leather.
It is only stitched once inside and out by a machine, so there is no
way it could have taken the Buck with Human in it or no, There is
only one thin strap of cotton strip from one stirrup bar to the
other Single Machine Stitched. It is fine for a horse that doesn't.
buck, shy,basically do any sort of jerky violent move. It is
advertised for Endurance riding allot, and as you know there is
allot of shying/bucking on those rides.
But now that my Saddler had been at it for nearly 6mths (on and off)
he opened it up repaired the inside, replaced the piece of material
with a double piece of car seatbelt hand stitched 3 times, them
doubled stitched anything else that needed strength. He said it does
the Job it is advertised to do, that is, giving rider and horse very
good comfort , which I can agree on, but there is no
security,craftsmanship in the saddle at all. Before buying this
saddle I really researched it as a saddle to be ridden in, it was
recommended in the Endurance mags a fair bit, but unfortunately you
can not get one to 'try' and take it to someone to look at 'engine'
No matter, It is all fixed now, it can take a fairly rough ride now
and I feel much safer, bugger. So just a warning for those looking
at one, look at the stitching it is a good sign of if it can
withstand you type of riding.
I noted that the Mature Aged Lady Rider on
the Young Horse above here, was wearing these, which I questioned
her about. Ariet Riding Boots.
Now it is amazing these Days, how Businesses
can 'Spin Doctor' Marketing Talk to make People believe anything. I
am sorry but don't tell me that these are Safe for Riding. They are
downright Dangerous in my opinion and I warn against them. Don't be
fooled by the New Age smooth words Folks. Watch out for your